Why playing Monica Lewinsky forced Beanie Feldstein to ‘disassociate’ from herself

[Archival news clip from C-SPAN Live on Jan. 26, 1998: … some of that footage of the press staking out that location looking for some pictures of Ms. Lewinsky from earlier today.]

Villarreal: Today’s guest is Beanie Feldstein, who plays Monica in FX’s “American Crime Story.” This season is called “Impeachment,” and it revisits the Clinton sex scandal by retelling it through the perspectives of the women involved. And obviously, Monica became a big part of that story when her friend Linda Tripp exposed her affair with the president.

Olsen: You know, Yvonne, it’s been so interesting over the past few years to see, not just with Monica Lewinsky but with a lot of women, the way that they were depicted by the media in the ’90s and 2000s. And that we’ve been sort of reexamining how those depictions went down. Who was telling those stories? How were they telling those stories? And so to see Monica Lewinsky in some ways get to reclaim her story over the past few years has been really exciting to see.

Villarreal: Yes, and she had a hand in telling this particular story. She was actually an executive producer and worked closely with Beanie on her performance. And for Beanie, it was like her first big experience with television. You probably remember her from movies like “Booksmart” and “Lady Bird,” or you’ve heard about her upcoming stint on Broadway as Fanny Brice in “Funny Girl.” But despite her impressive résumé, here’s how Beanie described herself to me.

Feldstein: Just a little human Bean and trying to get by.

Villarreal: I love that. I mean, let’s start with “Impeachment.” You were only 4 years old when this story was happening in real life, right?

Feldstein: Yes, I think 4 1/2.

Villarreal: Wow. I’m curious to learn more about what you remember about that time. Like, as you grew up or perhaps what you learned along the way.

Feldstein: I mean, I was as close to, I think, a blank slate as one could possibly be. You know, like, I knew about a blue dress. The president, some people wanted him to leave office. And eventually I learned what the word impeachment meant. You know, like it was piecemeal.

As I got older, I honestly don’t even remember learning about Monica. I think it was just all of a sudden — I don’t remember a time that I didn’t actively know about her, but what I knew about her was so thin. It was so two-dimensional. You know, it was bullet points at best. It was caricature and late-night joke and a lyric in a song.

None of it was human. None of it was complex or complete. And then as I got older, I think someone told me, “You know, she actually grew up near where you grew up.” And I was like, “Oh, huh.”

And then I remember seeing a clip of her singing or in a musical. And I knew she was Jewish, obviously. So as I got older, I sort of learned of a more human portrait of her and saw some similarities between our upbringings.

Um, but when I was doing my research, I would read with my jaw on the floor because I think I knew maybe 5% of what she went through.

[Archival clip from Tripp-Lewinsky Tape:

Monica Lewinsky: But, Linda, I don’t know why I have these feelings for him. Maybe I’m crazy. Maybe I’m crazy. Maybe I don’t really have these feelings.]

I knew nothing of her friendship with Linda Tripp. I knew Linda Tripp’s name, and I knew there were tapes. But I didn’t have a deep understanding of that dynamic.

[Archival clip from Tripp-Lewinsky Tape:

Monica Lewinsky: I never expected to feel this way about him, and I’m not kidding you.

Linda Tripp: You protect him.]

So there was so much I had to learn, and it was really painful. Just thinking constantly, how did I not know this? How was this never explained?

Villarreal: Well, what’s one of the details from that research that shocked you most or challenged your assumptions about what happened, you know, looking back on it from today?

Feldstein: The thing that was most shocking to me certainly was Operation Prom Night, which was Jan. 16, 1998, when the FBI seized Monica and took her into a hotel room, and that interaction lasted for 12 hours.

[Archival clip from “Impeachment: American Crime Story”:

Mike Emmick: You will tell us every single instance that you interacted with the president. After that, you will make three phone calls. Each call will be recorded.]

Feldstein: It is unbelievable to see what the Office of Independent Counsel, Kenneth Starr’s team and the FBI did to a 24-year-old girl in her workout clothes who’s just trying to move out of D.C. and start fresh in a new life. And they corner her, and she’s in a room with eight to 12 men, I think, over the course of the day.

They’re armed, and they’re asking her to turn on the president of the United States, and she won’t do it.

[Archival clip from “Impeachment: American Crime Story”:

Mike Emmick: You will call Betty Currie. You will call Vernon Jordan. And then President Clinton.

Monica Lewinsky: What?

Mike Emmick: Don’t worry, we will coach you through it.

Monica Lewinsky: Who would do that? No, I can’t. I’m not doing that. You can’t make me do that.]

Feldstein: I think it’s the truest example of the truth is stranger than fiction, because that day from start to finish is still hard for me to process now.

And the fact that they were just openly calling it Prom Night. Oh, why is it called Prom Night? Oh, because we think it’ll be 30 minutes with a hotel room with a young girl. And it’s just like, it’s disgusting, it’s horrific, it’s appalling.

Villarreal: Well, I think that thinking about her mindset is so crucial. I mean, I was just a few years older than you when all this happened. And for me at the time, Monica felt like an adult. Her being in her 20s was the same to me as her being in her 40s.

Feldstein: Totally.

Villarreal: But, like, in viewing your portrayal now as an adult, it hit me that the way Monica was sort of infatuated with Bill was almost the way I, as a teenager and young adult, was a total maniac for, like, NSYNC. Like, did that compute for you?

Feldstein: Yeah, you know, I think when I got the role, I was 25.

And you know, even though I’m only in my late 20s and I’m sure people much older than me would be like, “Ugh, honey, you’re still a baby, you’re still young.” Even just the difference between who I was at 22 when I’d just graduated college, 23. Looking back on my first movie, my first — like all of these firsts that happen when you’ve just entered the world really for the first time.

And that happens at 22. And you’re a little adult. You know, like you are discovering the world outside of an institution or community or family. It’s just you by yourself. And at the earliest point in the story of “Impeachment: American Crime Story,” Monica has just turned 22.

Villarreal: Right.

Feldstein: So she was a fresh 22-year-old when they met. And when they first were intimate together. You know, even though I’m only six years older than that, it feels like a very poignant six years of maturing, of figuring out who you are, of trying on different identities. So I completely agree with you. I think that when you’re young, anyone over 18 sounds old, but when you’re older — not that we’re old, but when you’re older — that’s a baby. You know, not to say that she wasn’t incredibly intelligent and strong and knowing and all of those things. But she was also simultaneously naive and wide-eyed and unsure. And Monica, to me, was always that ultimate contradiction. She was incredibly confident, incredibly sure of herself and also deeply insecure, simultaneously.

Villarreal: Well, “Impeachment” spends some time focusing on Monica, like you said, as a young 20-something navigating the harsh realities of being thrust into the public eye through scandal and being tormented by it. Did you feel like you could connect with her in some way through that experience of, at the very least, being in the public eye?

Feldstein: You know, I find my privacy very sacred. You know, I think privacy is incredibly important, and everyone deserves it. But I always knew I wanted to perform, and the act of being a performer means you’re being seen, which means that people might know you or take interest in you or something like that.

Monica was a private human being who was not at all someone who wanted to be in the public eye, and her privacy was ripped from her in the most unbearable, unfair way. And so, it was beyond anything I could have related to directly as myself.

And I always say that Monica is … she was treated as a meal for society and the media to just feast upon like vultures. And then, simultaneously, she learned about the depths of Linda Tripp’s betrayal on the news. And I think that it is truly one of the most singularly painful friendship stories of all time.

Villarreal: Well, I don’t want to sound glib because few of us have ever experienced a betrayal on the scale that Monica experienced with Linda. But like, what is a time that a friend has wronged you badly enough to have sort of influenced your portrayal of Monica Lewinsky, who’s like history’s most wronged friend?

Feldstein: You know, I don’t really act like that. Like, I don’t …

That’s not really a tool that I use. I don’t use my own experience to kind of inject into her experience. I’d rather use like empathy or like sympathy side of myself that would — if I was in her shoes. I am currently, literally, sometimes in her shoes, in her hair, you know, wearing her hair on my head. How would this feel? How would this feel? And after my extensive research of both their coming together and their unbearable breaking apart, I knew how deep this would hit.

[Archival clip from “Impeachment: American Crime Story”: Monica Lewinsky: I don’t understand what is happening. Why is this happening?]

Feldstein: Almost guttural. Like a physical reaction, like your body trying to process emotions and, like, there’s a moment where Monica says she feels like she’s going to be sick.

[Archival clip from “Impeachment: American Crime Story”:

Mike Emmick: Somebody get her a trash can.

Monica Lewinsky: I feel sick. I feel sick. (Sobbing.) No, I can’t.]

Feldstein: When things, you know, are that traumatic and shocking, like your body processes shock in a very specific way. But I’m not someone who would reflect on my own life because my own life is kind of distracting. I’m trying actively, you know, to disassociate from Beanie and like reassociate as Monica, almost.

Villarreal: Mm-hmm. You’ve spoken previously about “Booksmart” and “Lady Bird” and being drawn to depictions that showcase female friendships and the beauty and complexity of them. How did depicting a friendship that so famously fell apart change or deepen your views on those relationships?

Feldstein: Yeah, you know, actually I got back from — I had the honor of moderating a conversation with Anna and Maya from “Pen15.”

Villarreal: Oh, my God, I’m so jealous.

Feldstein: I mean, I was beyond honored. I was like, “I’m like in the crew now.” As if I was, like, fully a part of it. But the reason I love the show so much and the reason I love their work so much is because of how beautifully and specifically it represents female friendship, which is just like always my favorite thing to be a part of and to also be an audience member of. And the heart of “Impeachment: American Crime Story” and Sarah Burgess, our incredible genius writer, always says she wasn’t sure what to do when this was offered to her. Like, how do I start this huge undertaking with so many players, so many people? And she was like, I start with Linda and Monica being co-workers at the Pentagon. And bonding over the cafeteria food or their cubicle mate. You know, it’s two women that become friends because they’re unhappy in their jobs and they feel invisible and they feel cast aside.

And they both need someone to talk to and needed someone to confide in, obviously. It’s very powerful. It’s very powerful to watch two people really connect and then one person convince themselves of something being right for the other person and it being so misguided and so selfish.

It’s like, I don’t want to hear my mom, like, ordering a sandwich if she doesn’t know that she’s being recorded. Like that just doesn’t — it’s so invasive, right?

By watching the show, you understand her reasoning. You, you might not agree with it, but you understand the ideology behind it. And, you know, it is weirdly still in line, as you said, with “Lady Bird” or “Booksmart,” in that it is a friendship story and it is, unfortunately, the opposite side.

As someone who thinks it’s important to explore friendship as deeply as we explore romantic love or familial relations, like, it’s the most sort of unbelievable case of friendship.

Beanie Feldstein joins “The Envelope” podcast.

(Michael Nagle / Los Angeles Times)

Villarreal: You’ve been acting your whole life, right?

Feldstein: I’ve been acting in, like, school theater, community theater and dabbling very lightly in a few professional things. But my parents saw two things. They saw a girl who, like, was so obsessed with musical theater she was, like, going to combust. Literally like all little me wanted to talk about was, like, Stephen Sondheim and “Fiddler on the Roof.” And, you know, Kander and Ebb. And it was like this 7-year-old, just bursting with obsession and passion … but they also saw a kid who really loved school.

And my parents said, “We see how much you love this, and we see how much you love school. And if you were to get a job on a TV show, you know, and its six seasons, they could have you from the time you start middle school through graduating high school.”

Villarreal: Right.

Feldstein: So you can audition for theater because, as a kid, you always outgrow theater because if you’re playing a kid, eventually you’re going to get too big. It doesn’t grow with you. You know what I mean? Like, I don’t get that much taller. Like, other people get taller and older-looking. So they said, “You can audition for professional theater.” And that was my wish anyway. I didn’t really think too much about film and television.

Villarreal: Mm-hmm.

Feldstein: I auditioned like maybe once a year, maybe twice a year. But the only thing I ever did was a production of “Annie” actually as one of the orphans at a professional theater in California. Like, I never booked anything in New York, so it wasn’t that big of a deal.

Villarreal: Well, when you went out for roles when you were younger, before you made it big, did you have a career arc in mind? Because you, like me, seem like a planner.

Feldstein: Oh yes, love that. That you could — we could see it in each other.

Villarreal: Yes.

Feldstein: I’m such a planner, extremely tightly wound and Type A. I always wanted to be on Broadway, that was singularly my goal.

It was like the wish and the dream and the path took place or was created in my mind’s eye before I even remember it being created.

And the only thing that ever came in the way of that was school. I think of my adolescence and even my college years as sort of this real dance between, like, wanting to be an actor and wanting to be a student. And weirdly, I didn’t explore being a student of acting. That was never something that I felt connected to. It was like I wanted to be an academic student, and in college, I found sociology and ended up being a sociology major. And I found this very intense academic side of myself that sometimes felt like it had to compete with or sort of dance around my creative, performative side, if you will.

Villarreal: Why do you think that was that you felt you had to go the more traditional academic route?

Feldstein: I found being in an academic — and this was — this is entirely personal. I have so many friends that went to BFA programs that love it.

But for me, to approach theater and performing from an academic lens was confusing to me. Like to read about the concept of liveness and performativity, while also simultaneously being a performer, I was like, “nope.”

Like, thinking outside of it and inside of it at the same time, I found difficult. So I sort of separated them. I was like, “I’m going to think academically about something unrelated.” And then my actor self, my creative self was like a different entity.

Villarreal: Hmm. Was there also like, in the back of your mind, any doubt about if you would be an actor later on?

Feldstein: I hate the phrase, you know, “Do it only if it’s the only thing you know how to do” or — I just think that’s so depressing and so not motivating or positive. And so I completely disagree with that statement.

There are so many other things that I love to do. I could own a summer camp. I could be a sociology professor. I could be a nanny. I think I would find all those things very fulfilling. But I came out with jazz hands. It was this undeniable thing in me that kind of has a life of its own.

Villarreal: So you knew it was going to happen. It was just a matter of when versus if?

Feldstein: I don’t know if I knew it would happen, but I knew I had to try.

I’m very much not the most, like, “Yeah, I was going to do it.”

There are so many talented people. Growing up doing theater and going to theater camp and being at Wesleyan … like, I know so many, so many talented people, some of whom get to go do what they love every day and some of whom don’t. And so I do not take a minute of this for granted because it is hard work and dedication and passion, but it’s also luck too.

Villarreal: Well, I want to spend some more time, especially given that you have sort of depicted so many great high school characters. Like, tell me more about the Beanie in high school. Your friends in school were actors too, right, like your bestie, Ben Platt? Like, tell me about Beanie in high school.

Feldstein: I was, like, fully Noah Galvin’s character in “Booksmart.”

[Archival clip from “Booksmart”: George: We will be performing the Bard’s comedies as tragedies outside Whole Foods across town. It’s actually funny. It’s what we did in my summer program last year in Barcelona, when I lived in Barcelona.]

Yeah, I think, you know, with “Booksmart,” it helped me learn to sort of, like, celebrate that sort of obsessive Type A side of myself.

[Archival clip from “Booksmart”: George: I will be directing, and Alan may be starring, pending auditions.]

I think I always tried to, like, disguise it — to no avail. Like, all my friends, my partner would be like, “Are you kidding me? Like, if I move a sock, you’re like, ‘Where did that sock go?’”

But I was a theater kid through and through. Like, our high school class was insane. Looking back on it, like Ben … Ben Platt was … It’s so weird to say your best friend’s, like, first and last name, you know what I mean? Benjamin Schiff Platt was also in my high school class. Ben, and then our dear friend, Kathryn, who is in “Jagged Little Pill” on Broadway right now and was nominated for a Tony Award.

And, you know, I do think that I am incredibly privileged to grow up in a community where being in the arts is seen as a legitimate career path. You know, in school, your friends’ parents are producers or writers or actors themselves or musicians or, you know … So that’s certainly made it feel tangible and made it feel real.

Villarreal: Is it crazy to think that like now, you and Ben are, like, in this long-term onscreen commitment? I mean, you both agreed to spend two decades working on Richard Linklater’s upcoming adaptation of “Merrily We Roll Along.” And for those that don’t know, the story follows the lives of three friends and tracks the relationship over 20 years. Was it the easiest decision to make or the hardest?

Feldstein: Well, imagine me and Ben driving down Coldwater Canyon in Los Angeles, singing, “Hey, old friend.” I mean, that’s literally been our whole lives.

[Archival music from “Merrily We Roll Along”: Old Friends (Part 1) / Like It Was]

He’s always been my Charley.

[Archival music from “Merrily We Roll Along”: Old Friends (Part 1) / Like It Was]

You know, now it’s insane that Rick sees that too. But we’ve always kind of been that for each other. And this musical — I could cry. I haven’t actually really talked about it since Stephen Sondheim passed away, and he meant so much to me. And, um … sorry. Wow. He is like my guiding — I mean, I never even got to meet him, but he meant this much to me.

And again, like talking about friendship stories, it’s a musical about friendship. So I sort of … I don’t know, I feel like this higher calling for me somehow involves friendship stories. And my friends mean everything to me and get me through every single day. So I am so proud and honored to A) be in a Stephen Sondheim musical, and to get to do it with my best friend.

Villarreal: What can you divulge about how it’s been going so far?

Feldstein: Oh, I can’t say much. I’m sorry. Come back in 20 years. The meanest, most annoying answer ever. I wish I could say more, but I’ll be 40, I don’t know, 6, when we’re finished, which is surreal. It’s sort of hard to imagine.

Villarreal: Yeah.

Feldstein: I’m as close to that as I am to being 8. So you know, it’s like —

Villarreal: It’s wild.

Feldstein: It’s wild.

Villarreal: Can I ask what your — I mean, for those that don’t know your brother is Jonah Hill — what did he think when you told him you were taking this on?

Feldstein: Oh, my God.

Villarreal: He’s very much a cinephile and all about the art and the craft.

Feldstein: Yes. Well, I — Jonah loves documentaries, and there is a beautiful documentary about “Merrily We Roll Along.” And basically, Lonny [Price], who played Charley in the original production, found all of this footage of them at the time when they were rehearsing and then opening. And then subsequently — if you know the story of the musical — closing very, very soon after they opened.

And I got Jonah to watch it. And he loved it. So I think he’s really, really excited — I don’t know. We’re both very proud of each other and each other’s, you know, biggest cheerleaders. And I was even sad to not be at the “Don’t Look Up” premiere, and he was like, “You’re singing for Bette Midler, like, you have to go.” It’s like, “No, I know, but I just — I don’t want to miss something, you know?”

Villarreal: I hope you gave him props on the blue suit because that was epic.

Feldstein: Yes, they looked amazing. He’s always the more fashionable one of the two of us. Our mom is incredibly stylish, and he gets that from her.

Villarreal: Well, as you’ve said, I mean, you’re a Broadway enthusiast, you know, where does that come from? Like, how did that start?

Feldstein: “Funny Girl.” The honest answer to that is the film of “Funny Girl.” That was the first movie musical I remember watching was “Funny Girl,” and it was my obsession. I used to run around my house screaming “Don’t Rain on My Parade” at the top of my lungs, and it’s just surreal that that is the honest answer because of what I’m about to do. But that is where my love began. So I just — it’s surreal, it’s surreal.

I watched her, and she was so unapologetically herself and went after what she wanted and was this, like, funny, ballsy Jewish woman, and I genuinely believe that I would not … so many Jewish women would not have a career if it wasn’t for Fanny Brice. She was a complete trailblazer and broke a ton of glass ceilings and was just — she’s tremendously focused on what she believes she can do. And she has a lot of belief in herself, which is something that I think we could all use a little bit of.

Villarreal: Have you talked to Barbra Streisand at all? Have you been invited to the underground mall?

Feldstein: I have not spoken to Barbra and — I mean, I grew up, you know, loving her, worshipping her. I still love and worship every bone and every vocal cord and every everything. But I just, you know, I have to remind myself that my job is to play Fanny Brice, not Barbra Streisand. And so I’m just trying to put all my focus into playing Fanny. But I love Barbra so much. And, you know, she’s my everything.

Villarreal: Just promise if it happens, there will be a selfie posted on Instagram or something.

Feldstein: I don’t even know if I’ll be able to talk, let alone, like, use my hands in any way. On Sunday, I was in the wings at the Kennedy Center, and I turned to my right, and Smokey Robinson is standing there and he said, “Hello.” Like so sweetly, he was like, “Hello.” And I was like “H-h-h, h-h-h, hi.” Like I — it’s two letters, it’s one syllable. I couldn’t make the word “hi” in my mouth.

Villarreal: What was your reaction when you first met Bette Midler, who you starred with in “Hello, Dolly!”?

Feldstein: Oh, my God. Well, she was wearing cashmere sweatpants and Skechers, and I remember the Skechers very specifically because —

Villarreal: How could you not?

Feldstein: April [Napier], our costume designer for both “Lady Bird” and “Booksmart,” but at the time “Booksmart” hadn’t happened. When I was meeting with April about costume designs for Julie, my character in “Lady Bird,” I said, “She has to wear Skechers.” And April was like, “I can’t put Skechers into a movie.” Like, “It’s going to hurt me to put Skechers in a movie.” And I was like, “She has, like Julie has to wear the thickest, chunkiest Skechers you’ve ever seen in your own life.” And she did it for me. She let me wear them, and I started “Hello, Dolly!” rehearsals. It was like two weeks after “Lady Bird,” and I texted her, and I was like, “Bette Midler wears Skechers.”

Villarreal: I love this.

Feldstein: Bette, in a very, very, very similar way to Barbra and Fanny Brice, like, if you are a Jewish woman who wants to make people laugh and wants to sing, like, it’s Bette and Barbra, you know? But she’s the most hardworking human being you will ever meet, and she is Bette Midler. She could lift a pinky finger and people would laugh and clap. But the reason she’s Bette Midler is because she cares more than anyone I’ve ever met. She works harder than anyone I’ve ever met, and she is a perfectionist. And getting to witness that every day at 23 years old was the gift that will forever keep on giving for me because she led with such grace and such commitment.

Villarreal: Can I ask how it was sort of having that moment where, you know, you’re experiencing the success of “Lady Bird,” and you’re in the midst of “Hello, Dolly!” And your brother Jordan … I mean, he passed away quite suddenly in the midst of all of this. And I know that you wrote that grieving him feels like a pair of glasses has been strapped to your face, and these glasses make me see the world differently than I did before. Like that really spoke to me. And I’m just curious, like, can you describe what you meant by that? Like, in what ways did you see the world differently?

Feldstein: I think the thing that you just can’t ever explain to someone who’s never been through it is that your whole perspective on everything changes.

The way I pick up a bar of soap changes. The way that I fill up a glass of water, forever changed. The way I put on a jacket, walk down the street, order dinner, perform a show. Anything from brushing my hair to being on a set is forever changed because I’m forever changed. And my family’s forever changed. And it was the most visual way I could describe, like, a shift in perspective that is unchangeable. And when you wear glasses, you can sort of, like, see above and below it. But you can’t take them off.

And sometimes they’ll fall off the edge of your nose, and you can sort of see your old life, your old self, your old friendships, relationships, et cetera. But you can’t take them off. And I one day would love to connect with people more on that, but it’s just I’m not ready yet.

Villarreal: No, I get that. I for sure get that. You know, before I wrap, I mean, we’ve talked about all these amazing things that are coming up for you. Do you feel like you’ve reached a place of choice in your career?

Feldstein: Um, I feel like on my journey through this industry and life and career and everything, like, I just always want to keep people on their toes of where to find me. And also keep myself forever learning. So, like, for me, learning how to be on a set was such a big learning curve. And I continue to learn. And, you know, I had never been in a television show other than “What We Do in the Shadows,” where I was a guest. And then all of a sudden I was doing “Impeachment: American Crime Story.” It was a 10-episode drama we shot for 180 days. Like, it was a completely new experience for me. So I think that the privilege of choice is, for me, very medium-based.

And, I don’t know. I think that that is a real gift to kind of keep myself guessing and then keep everyone else guessing too.

Villarreal: That’s it from us here at “The Envelope!” I’m your host, Yvonne Villarreal.

Olsen: And I’m Mark Olsen. If you haven’t already, please make sure to follow “The Envelope” wherever you get your podcasts! And don’t forget to leave us a review, and recommend “The Envelope” to a friend. We’ll be back next week with a brand-new episode.

Villarreal: This episode was produced and edited by Asal Ehsanipour, Heba Elorbany and our executive producer, Jazmín Aguilera. Our engineer and composer is Mike Heflin. Special thanks to Shani Hilton, Clint Schaff, Tova Weinstock, Amy Wong, Chris Price, Ross May, Patricia Gardiner, Geoff Berkshire, Elena Howe and Matt Brennan.

Olsen: Thanks for listening! We’ll see you next week.